Ismeta
Ismeta born 1949, Podgorica. Moved to Sarajevo for marriage in 1977. Interview by her daughter, Dženita.
DL: So, now we’ll, I’ll ask you some stuff about coffee. When, for instance, when was the first time you had coffee?
DL: Okay. Go ahead and tell me your name please.
IL: Should I do my first and last names?
DL: Tell me your first name, your last name …
IL: Where I was born…
DL: Where you were born, and, like…
IL: But which name, last name, from my husband or from… the one I was born with?
DL: What’s your legal name now?
IL: No, I’m just asking, Dženita.
DL: Just tell me now, like this: tell me your name.
IL: Am I recording now?
DL: We’re recording, go ahead.
IL: Right. My name is Ismeta Lukačević, I was born in Podgorica, on the fifth… Actually, no! In May, on May 10, 1949.
DL: And when did you move to Sarajevo?
IL: I came to Sarajevo on June 11, 1977.
DL: A why did you move to Sarajevo?
IL: Because, right? I married a Sarajevan.
DL: And, okay, that’s good. Go ahead and tell me now, when did you, when was the first time you had coffee?
IL: Well, I had my first coffee, I was maybe, was 14 or 15. And…
DL: And do you remember then…?
IL: Yep, I remember then what the coffee was like, we had coffee, my mother, myself, my sister, and two of my cousins. The cousins were around the same age as my sister, and I, and we drank coffee, and I made it, I liked coffee a lot, and they always asked only me to brew it for them, to brew coffee for them, because my, because when I made coffee, they’d say it tasted the same as chocolate. And the word spread about how I brew coffee, my mother’s brother heard, my dad’s brothers, my aunts, and no one would drink coffee unless I made it. And me, how… I loved coffee so much that I’d always brew some for me when I made coffee for them.
DL: And do you remember… How did you… How… Who taught you how to make coffee?
IL: My mother taught me how to brew it.
DL: And you were, like, around 14 years old or…?
IL: And… 14, yep, 14 years old, 15, around there, because our mother taught us, both me and my sister to, to uh, to brew coffee and, I mean, to help her around the house, to…
DL: And do you remember how you were making coffee?
IL: Well, I made coffee, well, there you go, I just told you, I made coffee, um, one individual pot at a a time. However many people there were, five-six or ten, I had to make an individual pot for each of them, not all in one big pot.
DL: So one individual pot for two small servings each.
IL: So one individual pot, individual pot and one small cup, um, there you go, that’s how you drank, um, coffee.
DL: In Podgorica.
IL: In Pogorica, yep.
DL: And how did you, like, how, how do you make, the whole process of coffee making? How do you make a cup of coffee?
IL: Aha! I boil some water, and then I get a coffeepot, I put one spoon, but that depends on who likes what. Some like their coffee on the sweet side, some like it on the bitter side, some without any sugar, and you have to remember who likes what. So, if someone likes it without any sugar, I brew their coffee, take a pot, and put just coffee, right, without sugar, and I put about three spoons, small ones, of coffee and pour, in the pot, pour hot water over, and I put it back on the burner so it rises, and when it rises, I take a small spoon again and I, several times, um, I stir it. Then I put it on the stove again so it rises again and only then do I pour it into… into… that coffee cup. Then I pour, about a half-full, also hot water, in a pot and pour that over the coffee, so that the grounds, so that the grounds sink to the bottom, and so that the foam, so that the foam is nicer, so that the foam is like, like chocolate, like, what’s the word…
DL: Creamy?
IL: Like creamy, yep, so it’s not, so that you don’t feel the coffee… When you grind it, and you have those grains, so that it doesn’t… But so that those grounds, when you use a small teaspoon, you let it rise a few times, then it, those grounds sink to the bottom of the, in, in, in that, of the cup. That’s why the coffee is nice and creamy and like chocolate.
DL: And, like, your mom taught you all that?
IL: My mother, my mother taught me, me and my sister.
DL: And the way she taught you, you continued?
IL: That’s how I brew coffee to this day and…
DL: And do you remember the first coffee pot, do you remember what the first pot you made coffee in looked like? What was it like?
IL: Well, it was a small pot.
DL: A small pot? Well, okay, but…
IL: Well, the water starts to boil…
DL: No, now, when you stop and think, do you remember that moment when you first made coffee and what the pot looked like?
IL: Right, it was a small gold one, we had, for instance, gold pots, and we had also, like, like, those silver ones. Yes, that’s how we, we had several of those small pots, and we had a kettle, it wasn’t like… we had a kettle.
DL: Aha.
IL: We had a kettle and we always had hot water.
DL: Aha.
IL: You know, we always had hot water, because, if someone stops by and you have hot water, it boils, you put coffee in a pot…
DL: Aha, so if, for instance, someone comes over…
IL: Yeah…
DL: Without calling first…
IL: Yeah…
DL: You’re immediately at the stove making coffee?
IL: Yep.
DL: Because it’s waiting, you’ve already prepared…
IL: Well, you always had it on the stove, back in the day you had a wood stove, you burned firewood…
DL: Aha…
IL: That kettle, you always had hot water. Because you always needed something, to cook something, to do something, and whenever you’re cooking, you don’t use cold water but hot water. And that, and that kettle always had, it was …
DL: It was…
IL: There was always hot water, so I used that kettle, that boiling water, I poured it from the kettle into the coffeepot.
DL: And how many times a day did you drink coffee?
IL: Whenever someone came by, what can I say? Maybe about ten, twelve.
DL: Twelve times?
IL: Yeah.
DL: And nothing, like, how did you feel when you drank coffee?
IL: I was, it felt good, I was glad, whoever, whoever came by to see me, I was glad because I’d get to drink coffee.
DL: And then you make coffee for yourself and for them?
IL: Yeah, for me and for them. They all knew I loved coffee.
DL: So everyone would come by. And how big were those cups, do you remember those cups?
IL: They were small. They were small, just like this. That’s how small they were. They weren’t this big.
DL: These are some big ones.
IL: These are, we called them… Small cups, this size. This is so we’re a bit modern, so you use… These big ones.
DL: Aha. And tell me…
IL: No one, no one would want to drink out of big cups like these.
DL: No one would, so only the small ones…
IL: They only had these small coffee cups.
DL: And did, like, how did, I mean, you know how it is in Bosnia, they say, like, that kind of experience of sorts, and pleasure, like, is connected with coffee, like, whatever people do, they do it over coffee.
IL: Over coffee, right.
DL: Was it like that in Podgorica as well?
IL: That’s how it is in Pogorica too.
DL: The same way, you…
IL: In Podgorica, right, women gather, right, a group of them, they come over, several women have a chat over coffee. There’s always been chatting over coffee.
DL: Mhm.
IL: And that was truly an expereince, regardless, when you, lunchtime, and everything, it’s, it’s all just fog accompanying coffee, you know, accompanying that…
DL: So, coffee was the main thing.
IL: Coffee was the main thing, and if there’s a gathering, among men, the same thing, all of it, whenever there’s company, there’s always coffee. You have a chat and…
DL: And do you recall which coffee you liked best, what was the name, like, I mean, you had a lot of, um, kinds of coffee, which kind did you like best?
IL: Well, we would buy, my mother would always buy green coffee, the fresh green coffee, and then she’d roast it.
DL: Whole bean?
IL: Whole bean, yep. She’d roast the coffee and there was, there was Minas, Minas coffee, and, I can’t remember, another one. And she would always roast those two kinds and she, every time, she’d grind the coffee. And that’s why that coffee was like chocolate.
DL: Because it was freshly ground.
IL: Ground, freshly ground, and the fact that she roasted the coffee herself, she didn’t, the coffee was in-between, it wasn’t light and it wasn’t, it wasn’t, like, dark, black, but somewhere in-between, brownish, and every time, for example, when someone stopped by, she’d put the coffee in the grinder, and grind the coffee, and use the coffee from that grinder…
DL: …to make a pot.
IL: …to make a pot. As always, you put…
DL: So, she wouldn’t keep it aside to…
IL: No, like nowadays, like when you, like when we buy coffee today, no. It was fresh coffee, green, and then you roast and grind it and immediately, as soon as it’s ground, you know, because it tastes differently, you know, that’s why it was like… And she’d mix two, two kinds of coffee.
DL: And do you now, do you also use the beans the way your mother did or…
IL: No. I don’t buy it these days, you can’t find the bean… um, there’s none of that. There are coffee beans for sale, but they’ve already been roasted and then put aside, and it, the coffee goes flat, the coffee needs to be fresh if you want nice coffee. It can’t live on the store racks and the like, it has its shelf life. And its aroma. You know, and you…
DL: So now you…
IL: The best coffee is the one you roast yourself.
DL: Yourself.
IL: However, nowadays it’s not available, it’s more, nobody roasts their won coffee anymore, people buy it in stores and…
DL: And, like, tell me, what’s the word, when you moved to Sarajevo and, like, do you remember your first coffee set and who gave it to you and what it looked like?
IL: When I got married, yep, I remember, I do, I got it from my mother-in-law, I got a set of cups. From that… And the cups were also small, coffee cups, like these small coffee cups here. Because, and she told me, she told me how to brew coffee, even though I already knew how, but she, but she also gave me some advice, some, and she said, here, this how you will make coffee.
DL: And then, let’s say, did you accept that advice otherwise, or did you just make her coffee that way because she liked it that way?
IL: Well, she liked it, and I’d brew her coffee the way she liked it. The way she liked it and we drank coffee together, she and I. It didn’t matter that I was married and that I was young, she liked to drink coffee with me.
DL: And, let’s say, um, you worked in Sarajevo. Because, um, was it the same thing, you’d not only sit and have coffee with your family, but you’d go out for a coffee break in Sarajevo and …?
IL: I would. Yep. During, during our break, we’d have a half-an-hour break at work, and then we’d go, um… to a café or what’s the... and we’d have coffee, chat for a half an hour, have something to eat, it was break time, right, of course, we’d order something, and after that we’d, um, after that, our order, we’d order coffee right away.
DL: And tell me, um, let’s say, when you remember those moments when you drank coffee, now whether it was with your family, at home, at someone else’s place or let’s say, um, at, at work, during your break or with friends, like, what’s the first thing that comes to mind when you come to, when you think of that, aha, I had coffee with someone, what’s the first thing that comes to you, what’s the feeling like, that, like, you get?
IL: Well, I’ll tell you, um, the feeling is wonderful because you, when you’re with your family or friends or, um, somewhere at home, or in a restaurant, or a café, and stuff like that, you’ll know right away that they will, that you’ll talk about something, that you’ll, um, make plans together , over that pot of coffee… and then you have a wonderful feeling drinking coffee and talking about something. About something, I mean, right, family matters with your husband, or your mother-in-law or your friend, so that’s the, that’s the conversation that, which gives you… That something, that wonderful feeling, you know…
DL: …of relaxation.
IL: ... of relaxation, yep.
DL: And you, let’s say, brought various coffee cups from Sarajevo. How many sets did you bring?
IL: Here to Chicago, you mean?
DL: Aha.
IL: Ooooh, I brought, let me see how many I brought.
DL: Three, four, five.
IL: Five.
DL: So you brought five sets of coffee cups and one coffee pot.
IL: Three coffee pots.
DL: You brought three coffee pots and this here sugar container.
IL: I did, yep, and also this platter, this serving tray.
DL: Aha. And why did you decide to bring all that?
IL: Well, because, because over there in Sarajevo, I also had several, I didn’t just have this one set. But several sets. For example, whoever would come over to my house, I couldn’t just, I couldn’t bring out just one set, always the same set, you know.
DL: Aha.
IL: But rather, you have a feeling that, that when you’re having coffee, you not always using the same, the same, the same cup.
DL: Aha.
IL: But rather you’re drinking, you change it, so that you’re drinking, but it’s somehow different, ‘okay, now I’ll use these cups because they’re prettier, or are they, okay, I’ll take a look, okay, I won’t use those but those other ones,’ because you’d have, you’d have a guest, for example, and it’s someone special. And then you have to, when it’s something that’s, those, you have to have those special cups.
DL: And, let’s say, can’t you find those kinds of cups here in America?
IL: I can’t.
DL: And what is, say, the difference between coffee cups there and here? I mean, how come coffee cups aren’t available here?
IL: Well, over there, over there they have these really small coffee cups, like the way we took our coffee. Here, they’re available, cups are available, but only the bigger ones. But there’s no joy in drinking out of big cups. When it comes to coffee. But rather, but rather, the joy is in these small cups.
DL: And tell me, um, aside from liking, I mean, you drink Bosnian coffee daily. You make it yourself, and I make it for you. Do you like any other kind of coffee? Any other type? Do you like, say, Nes Café or American coffee?
IL: I do. I like both Nes Café and American coffee, I can enjoy that, but this coffee is number one.
DL: You drink this one first.
IL: This one is my first morning coffee, I can have Nes Café and the other ones, but coffee is coffee is this one.
DL: So, this Bosnian coffee.
IL: This Bosnian coffee, it’s the right stuff. I’ll take Nes coffee and the other one, but no, you don’t get the same feeling like when you have this one.
DL: So when you wake up in the morning, what’s your first thought, I have to make coffee?
IL: I have to get the coffee going, put the pot on the stove, make my coffee that way. And sit down over here nicely, maybe have a cookie or something, a glass of juice, sit down and drink my coffee. But nowadays, I used to do that, a lot in the morning, with my spouse back then…
DL: But you said you used to, um, drink even ten, twelve times, and now?
IL: Not these days. Not anymore. I haven’t been drinking coffee since I gave birth to you. Yep. No, I don’t drink that much coffee. No, but rather, um, back then, less nowadays. Less. I’ll have coffee in the morning, and then if I have another one, when I used to work with my, work… colleagues, one cup, and in the afternoon another one when I’m back, so that’s maybe two, three cups of coffee during the day, I used to have ten, I think, I won’t exaggerate if I say even fifteen.
DL: All right.
IL: You know, I loved coffee so much, but I cut down afterward.
DL: You cut down. (Ana in the background, barely audible.) Tell me now about this coffee pot.
